I am still reading around this before shooting my mouth off, but on its own what Glyn’s annotated displays breathtaking ministerial lack-of-understanding of how technology works; the media industry lobbyists have been doing too good a job – apparently having an open Wifi network puts you at risk of child porn? Yes I can see how that could work, but it’s not exactly happened yet, has it?

[nb: I’ve not edited this at all, but the signal-to-noise ration goes higher, further down]
[ps: three cheers for the earl of erroll; i have it on good authority that he’s a sound man, and the following fits that description]

UPDATE: sourced from http://twitter.com/glynwintle with permission; will post link to Hansard here (etc) asap after

• Digital economy bill being talked about in parliament now. Note in parliament not the lords.


• @tom_watson Do you know they are debating the #digitaleconomybill in parliment (not the lords) at the moment


• Watching #digitaleconomybill comitee in lords on flaky stream from parliament.tv


• Lord Lucas – “If Dickens were alive today, he wouldn’t see the iphone as a threat” #digitaleconomy #debill


• RT @tobystevens: RT @dgwbirch: HMG’s net issuance of gilts next 4 years will exceed issuance since dawn of time http://tinyurl.com/ybbultj


• Have your say on MPs’ Expenses http://mpexpensesconsultation.org.uk/


• Great response to people who claim kids are more unhealthy now than they ever where http://bit.ly/73rBr7


• RT @MayorOfLondon: London’s new Datastore http://data.london.gov.uk launches officially on 29th Jan #londondata #opendata #localgov


• @Simonw When are you next in London? 🙂


• The Digital Economy Bill will be debated again [Lords] on 12, 18, 20 and 26 January #threestrikes


• @simonw Did the trains work? Would it be ok if i dropped by the office to say hi?


• @glynmoody If you like the site, give @harrym a pat on the head. 🙂


• RT @EFF Facebook director suggests you lie to protect your privacy: http://eff.org/r.1e3 But doesn’t that violate terms of service?


• Any one following me who also works for ZDNet?


• @hubmum Why not hubgran?


• Congratulations on winning the Science Museums API competition @simonw @natbat site looks great http://j.mp/ru79v http://cosmos.natimon.com/


• @hubmum Strange twitter says the user name is ok


• 299 proposed amendments Lorded over Digital Economy Bill – and counting http://bit.ly/73yV1F #threestrikes #debill #digitalbritain


• @edent Yes to drinks. 🙂


• The Digital Economy Bill will be debated again in the lords today (12 Jan) #threestrikes


• RT @robertbrook: “Stop-and-search powers ruled illegal by European court” http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8453878.stm


• @JonnieHaley Could you send a copy of your MPs letter to the @openrightsgroup ? Thanks. 🙂


• They are now talking about disconnection in the Lords http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/house_of_lords/newsid_8167000/8167412.stm


• From the House of Lords OH: “You would be hard pressed to find some one under the age of 25 who is not downloading films and music”


• From Lords “To set out to criminalise a very large percentage of the population is some thing we should be careful about doing.”


• Once again music industry figures being quoted as fact when there is no evidence to prove it is.


• Yay Earl of Erol is challenging the statistic. But Lord Birt is trying to defend it by quoting music industry figures that are not proven.


• Lord Maxton saying music industry is slowly changing. The video industry has to look for different ways round the problem.


• Lord Whitty “it is not sensible to approach complex problem by alienating large chucks of the population”


• Minister says P2P is unlawfull! #muppet


• Lord Earl of Erroll is pointing out the ministers mistake.


• Now Film industry figures being quoted by the minister. Even though no proof that the figures are remotely correct.


• Lords “The companies created the problem. They should fix it, not come to us to help them.”


• Lord Razel “The owners can not have it both ways, on the one hand get these measures and keep the legal right to go through the courts”


• Phorm board director quits


• If I could vote for Lord Earl or Erroll I so would. He is continuing to do a great job! As always.


• Libdem Lord Clement Jones “The burden of proof is not set out and needs to be made clear” #threestrikes #debill Digital Economy Bill


• Conservative front bench worried that allegation is enough, simply on the bases of appearance. #debill #threestrikes


• Lord lucas asking how evidence will be obtained on people accused of downloading rather than uploading. #debill #threestrikes


• Phorm, Interception modenistion and deep packet inspection all being mentioned. 🙂 #debill #threestrikes


• Internet cafes and other networks being mentions in relation to disconnection. ‘debill #threestrikes #chillingeffect


• Lord Young, the minister admits that provisions where written thinking of P2P, but he will not restrict them just to P2P #threestrikes


• Minister thinks that most people will be on p2p so they will be uploading & downloading. Law is only really going to work on uploading only


• Minister does not think internet cafes will be caught. They can block protocols he says. #debill #netneutrality


• Minister thinks Lord Errol is wrong.


• Minister says if the university or internet cafe does not block then yes they could be disconnected. #threestrikes #debill


• Minister trying to side step problems with securing wireless networks. #debill #threestrikes


• @jonniehaley Use info@openrightsgroup.org should work


• Lib dems asking as ISPs liable then? #threestrikes #debill


• The minister says he does not understand the question. He does not intend to make the ISP liable. #threestrikes #debill


• Baroness Chilthorne asking types of defence can be used by people with wifi, is encryption enough? Liable if friend infringes on network?


• Lord Whitty supporting the Baroness encoring minster to agree with Chilthorne. What measures do they have to have to taken to defend?


• Conservatives (Lord Howard) saying its not clear about liability if wifi is broken into. Says most peoples systems not secure.


• Earl of Errol “Who is the subscriber? For example the user in parliament is not the subscriber.” Parliaments connection being cut off?


• Earl of Errol wht does the word allowed mean in this bill? Worried the gov means failure to prevent use of the network.


• If you want to watch debate live http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/house_of_lords/newsid_8167000/8167412.stm #threestrikes #debill


• Minister says the subscriber is the person who receives the service under a agreement with the person that provides the service.


• Minister says the sanctions are not heavy why is every one so worried. #threesttrikes (He seems genuinely confused)


• Minister saying some one needs to be punished and punishing guests would be to hard.


• Minister says you dont need a defence to the first letter, so whats the worry. #threestrikes #debill


• Lords asking the minister to tell whole tech world how to totally secure your network and computer. Minister not answering.


• Minister saying that he will not say how to secure your computer and network. but if you do then you are ok. He will write about communal


• Minister says “Some one needs to be identified, and that person is bound to be the subscriber .. the bill is very balanced” #threestrikes


• Miinster says clearly it would be a defence for some one to claim their netowork was broken into, then he changes his mind.


• Minster bring in child pron as a reason why you need to totally secure your computer or wireless network.


• Lords continuing to ask what kind of defences are ok. The minister says yes its important to have defences but he is reluctant to answer.


• Lords impressed with length of ministers answer and that he managed not to answer any thing. Question what child porn to do with the bill


• Lords what is the threshold before you will be punished? Amendment if approved would require copyright own to state value of infringement


• Lord Errol pointing out lots of the figures quoted are wrong. Wants to know if the gov has checked any of them.


• Errol asking what’s the gain compared with the loss? Quoting PM saying “universal high speed internet, no one must be left out, is good”.


• Minister does not want to include amendment because it hard to tell how much money has been lost by the infringement. #threestrikes #debill


• Minister quoting figures that where from music industry but notes they are not robust, but then says dont worry they are good enough.


• Minister telling Errol that he should stop worrying, you will only be disconnected after you get warned.


• Minister asked if he has an estimate of how many people are disconnected. Minister says dont worry people will stop after they get letters.


• Lord Lucas says how can you do this with out solid facts?


• Minister saying stop worrying. (Sorry debate seems to be becoming less sophisticated, minister not engaging)


• Lords saying they don’t want several million people disconnected, so what is the minister going to do to make sure that does not happen?


• Amendment proposed that sworn statement should be given that the complainant actually owns the copyright.


• Minister likes the amendment, but he will not accept them. But the code of practice may well cover this.


• Lord Lucas saying tens of thousands of internet users information has already passed on by ISP. The minister “code of practice will cover”


• Lords has adjourn. Reason they did that is next amendment had so many people who wanted talk on it, that it would take hours.


• Thats all for now folks. 🙂


• Digital Economy Bill clause 17 to be watered down http://bit.ly/5eRLny the one that allows Mandelson to make up copyright law


• Gov position shows they are set on keeping clause 17, despite suspicions it was a sacrificial lamb, to be discarded at last-minute


• @alecmuffett He said would not happen because the uni would block the protocol. If they continued to get written warnings it was their fault


• @alecmuffett Lords with techy skill found it funny. Asked him how to totally secure a computer and a wireless network, wanted to pass it on