Darren Moffat has been crying-out for someone to create this diagram:
linked from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_%28terminology%29
…and while we’re on the subject of Britain…
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16 responses to “…and while we’re on the subject of Britain…”
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re: …and while we’re on the subject of Britain…
I used this diagram when I tried to explain what “Being British” is all about, at a lunchtime presentation to US work colleagues. I also explained the flag. Sadly, people still ask me why I have a Swiss flag in my car … otheres think I am an ardent supporter of the Red Cross.
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re: …and while we’re on the subject of Britain…
If you liked that link / showing it to Americans, I think you will also enjoy:
http en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipping_Forecast
http en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_By
http en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_cultural_icons
…and regarding the flag, an ex-pat Welshman (ie: Chris) who’s lived in Australia for several years, recently returned to visit and asked whether the BNP had taken over, due to the proliferation of St George flags for the world cup. It was this shock which led me to agree with the faction that suggests letting – actively aiding – the English take back their flag for sport is a good thing.
Admittedly to an older generation it’s still considered mildly gauche of the English to be *proud* of their nation as opposed to “effortlessly superior” – “after all it’s only the Welsh and Scots who go about waving their flags like tribal emblems” attitude.
Seen from the flipside, maybe *this* is the true end of Empire – the English becoming like everyone else.
Soon we may see the end of self-identified-non-English people going around and tutting that “The English, they don’t know the Empire’s over, yet”.
I’ll *really* look forwards to the latter.
ps: the worst European national cuisine has not been British for several years. It’s the Dutch. Honestly. Go there, look at a supermarket.
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re: …and while we’re on the subject of Britain…
Now, that’s a useful Venn diagram – it’s going to make explaining how the Isle Of Man fits into everything a little easier.
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re: …and while we’re on the subject of Britain…
I’m not sure why England and Wales are in a separate subgraph, though, with Scotland at the level above.. ( I bet you knew I was going to bring that up )
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re: …and while we’re on the subject of Britain…
Like it or not, Wales is classed a Principality; it was seconded (for want of a better word, feel free?) into England and thence the Union, rather than joined by Act of Union. Hence it has the same legislature as England, etc.
You know all this, I’m sure, so I’m wondering what I am missing?
How Wales feels about itself nowadays is regrettably irrelevant to past history, otherwise the Welsh natives would have a lot less to feel oppressed about.
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re: …and while we’re on the subject of Britain…
ps: and if you really want to savage someone, go hit Dave’s mate Clive: 8->
http gerald-duck.livejournal.com/276934.html
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re: …and while we’re on the subject of Britain…
So, for bonus points, can someone add a couple indications of who rules what/who makes laws about what?
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re: …and while we’re on the subject of Britain…
Ah, no, that’s fair enough. I’d forgotten about the English/Welsh law thing.
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re: …and while we’re on the subject of Britain…
Maybe Cornwall, as a Dutchy (and originally a Kingdom in its own right until persuaded (without force of arms) to join English rule by William I) should be at the same level as Wales?
As for Wales itself, Pembrokeshire should again be separate as the Normans invaded and ethnically cleansed it of Welsh in the 11th century and hence it was an English colony long before the rest of the principalities of Wales caved in under the political pressure (and intreague) of the English kings. (This is why there are so many English/French placenames there. The original towns and villages (and people) were wiped out.)
Just as in India, some of the Welsh states aligned themselves with the English king without any fighting involved (as they knew which side their bread was buttered) and helped wage war on other Welsh states (who had been their old enemies).
Hmm.. isn’t history messy.. it just doesn’t fit well with the nice clean view needed for jingoistic nationalism. What a pity.
(Now, as for the Welsh themselves…. Hmm.. refugee Romano-British and left over legionaries the lot of them! ;-))
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re: …and while we’re on the subject of Britain…
I was surprised when an ardent Welshman confessed that he had no idea what the flag of Wales looks like. He thought it was one of the flags that make up the Union flag (it is only a Jack when it is on a boat). Good grief.
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re: …and while we’re on the subject of Britain…
well i used to wonder about that… go on, without looking it up, can you describe the flag of st david?
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re: …and while we’re on the subject of Britain…
And where do the Hebrides, Orkney and Shetland Islands fit into the picture ? Why are the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands singled out ? Last but not least, the really important question, what about Rockall – is it British ?
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re: …and while we’re on the subject of Britain…
>And where do the Hebrides, Orkney and Shetland Islands fit into the picture ?
“scotland”
>Why are the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands singled out ?
Because they have their own governments, parliaments or in some cases (until recently at least) feudal lords.
>Last but not least, the really important question, what about Rockall – is it British ?
http en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall :-
<<<Rockall is a small, rocky islet in the North Atlantic but is probably better known as one of the British Sea Areas named in the Shipping Forecast broadcast on BBC Radio 4. The status of the surrounding ocean floor is disputed with the United Kingdom by the Republic of Ireland, Denmark (for the Faroe Islands), and Iceland.>>>
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re: …and while we’re on the subject of Britain…
No doubt that these days, Hebrides/Orkney/Shetland Isles are administratively part of Scotland. But they were, for quite some time even after Canute the Great, Danish/Norwegian, therefore I wonder whether any “identity” is maintained there that’d qualify for special notice ?
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‘As for Wales itself, Pembrokeshire should again be separate as the Normans invaded and ethnically cleansed it of Welsh in the 11th century and hence it was an English colony long before the rest of the principalities of Wales caved in under the political pressure (and intreague) of the English kings. (This is why there are so many English/French placenames there. The original towns and villages (and people) were wiped out.)’
Brilliant history. At least 40% of the inhabitants of South Pembrokeshire (i.e. the only part of that county colonised) retained Welsh surnames and many names in that area were anglicised versions i.e. Manorbier= Maenobyr. There is even a ‘ Llanstadwell ‘.
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For those who don’t know about the landsker line in West Wales which is obliquely referred to above, there is a Wikipedia page on it (well, unless it gets merged into the “Little England Beyond Wales page). Having spent virtually all of my childhood summer holidays with my parents in Pendine and then travelling further west, and being obsessed with maps, it stands out..
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